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Discussion
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EDIT: while I appreciate everybody’s own life story and how they relate it to Pluto, there’s a lot of unpacking instead of addressing the matter from a psychological point of view, which is the gist of this publication 🙂
I’ve read in the following article about planets being projected upon one of the parents whenever they are in the parental houses, i.e. the 4th or 10th house.
[https://www.astro.com/astrology/in\_triangle\_e.htm](https://www.astro.com/astrology/in_triangle_e.htm)
“The parental significators usually show up very powerfully, and in such a way as to involve one’s emotional and sexual needs and one’s image of oneself as a man or woman. We might find planets in the 10th or the 4th house, which immediately suggests the parent is a carrier for or representative of something mythic and archetypal. Having no planets in the parental houses does not mean there are no conflicts with the parents, or no subjective image which we project on them. But it is often easier to perceive the parent as another person, another human, however flawed. When planets occupy these houses, the planetary gods appear with the parent’s face, wearing the parent’s clothes. A piece of our own destiny, our own inner journey, comes to meet us in very early life, disguised as mother or father and passed down through the family inheritance.”
“We may have to discover our primal passions if Pluto is in our 10th or 4th. But we may disown this at first, and say, “My mother was terribly manipulative,” or, “My father was so controlling.” Why do people become manipulative and controlling? If someone is expressing Plutonian qualities in a relationship, they are not doing it because it is fun; they are doing it because the relationship is equated with survival, and there is a desperate need to ensure that the beloved remains close. Pluto is mobilised when one feels under threat. People become manipulative because they are terrified of losing the object of their love. That love object constitutes survival for them, and manipulation seems the only possible way to ensure the continuity of the relationship. We are all capable of this, given the right level of attachment and the right level of threat. If we disown these Plutonian attributes and keep them firmly projected on the parent, Pluto may turn up in a triangle. Then we ourselves may have to discover how possessive we can be. Or we acquire a deeply possessive partner. We may get as far as saying, “Ah, yes, I have chosen someone just like my mother/father.” That is a useful piece of insight, but it is only the beginning. This possessive quality in the parent is described by our own 4th or 10th house Pluto. We must still discover it in ourselves. Often we only discover we have a Pluto through the experience of betrayal. It is just a blank in the chart until a triangle unearths it, and then we suddenly find our Pluto for the first time. We discover that we feel passionately, that we need intensely, that desperation can make us treacherous and manipulative, and that control may seem the only way to survive. This process of self-discovery may be a frightening and humbling experience, but it allows us to fully become what we are.”
Upon the premise that Liz Greene’s initial claim does resonate indeed, how would one go on integrating the qualities of a planet such as Pluto?
Her description, and that of many astrologers so far as I’ve read, is pretty unequivocal, with an emphasis on a kind of unhinged power. It may be either my own narrow moral judgement or lack of imagination, but I have a hard time picturing how realistic and positive developments of Pluto’s related characteristics would look like.
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Integrating Pluto as a parent in the 4th house?
updated 8 months, 1 week ago 2 Members · 13 Replies
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pluto in the 4th house or scorpio IC in the charts i’ve read is usually indicative of a controlling and/or abusive mother. if you are planning to become a parent i would say make sure your survival needs are met first before starting a family. liz greene’s assessments about pluto and survival needs are very astute. in an otherwise healthy chart, pluto only has a dark side when survival is threatened.
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I have Mars and Pluto in my 4th. My childhood was hell.
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I have pluto scorpio in my 4th, square saturn and asc, opposite my moon/southnode in my 10th. I could write a massive book on how this has played out. There is so much darkness in my family.. most of them are dead, or I cut them off after putting myself into a psych ward for a month.
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The power of regeneration, transformative abilities and deep healing, are three I can think of that make integrating Pluto highly positive. My Pluto is my dominant planet, conjunct IC and aspecting my sun and chart ruler…
Harnessing the power is no easy task and I believe you have to die over and over again, experience many betrayals and Intense relationships to truly see the power within you and the misuse of said power. It can be very hard to admit to yourself that you have hurt others and yourself without meaning to. My current relationship still has power dynamics at play and I know this won’t change until I do. I have literally and spiritually died many times and I’m still doing my shadow work and progress is excruciating.
I think Pluto people also struggle with control so gaining control over these traits is futile- I believe the lesson is to LET GO of control and remain self aware and meticulously evaluate your own actions and trauma, your generational trauma, and your relationships. I am still in survival mode as I have been my whole life and now that I’m in a safe place I cannot let go. I cling to everything until it dies. The positive aspect of this is intense spiritual development, healing generational lines, and extreme devotion to work and loved ones. This can all be possible when you let go of control over the situations in your life, I believe.
I think it’s important to remember that manipulation and power don’t have to be negative traits, famous performers have the ability to manipulate the emotions of large numbers of people for good. For example, “your music saved my life.” My calling in life is performer but I have the clarity now to understand I am not ready to wield such power over others emotions. I have been in therapy for the first time and I’ve realized that I was indeed projecting all of my manipulative and controlling traits onto my parents and not taking accountability. I think Pluto is a very hard one to integrate because of what you mentioned above, and also because of the difficulty of SEEING that inside yourself. I’d recommend therapy and shadow work to anyone with a dominant Pluto. I truly believe that’s the only way to mitigate harm to yourself or/and others that you are not aware of. Not every relationship has to involve power and a trauma bond, you don’t have to sacrifice everything on a whim or hold onto things until your hands bleed. The situations that happen to us Pluto dominants are indeed mirrors inside us a lot of the time, lessons to be learned to dig deeper and heal ourselves. We have a tremendous power to do so. Sorry if this was rambly- I think I really needed to see this today. My healing journey has reached a crossroads lately and I’ve been saddled with intense guilt and grief over my actions and actions taken against me by abusers and my parents. feeling like I cannot move on from this and that I’ll be stuck forever . Us Plutonians only get stuck for one reason I believe- holding on too tightly. We have to release our grasp.
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Pluto in the 10th house and square my Sun/Mercury. Definite issues with parents in general, father was difficult to live with and my mother was/is very manipulative and controlling in a very underhanded way. I have worked thru my own control issues as well.
When I see anyone with Pluto in their 4th house, my heart hurts, it’s always a very difficult early life.
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I have Pluto in Sag in the 3d / 4th whole sign (opposite Venus in MC). I prefer Placidus though in my personal experience when the house shifts between the two systems i find the themes of whole sign to be relevant but to a lesser degree. In this case: my mother is quite controlling and has been the subject of many of my therapy sessions. She is not abusive and i did not have a bad childhood at all, but i always struggled with her. I moved countries and never looked back – for many reasons, this was not the main one, but it played a role for sure, even though i didn’t know it at the time.
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Scorpio Mars Pluto conjunction in my 4th
Life was a battle everyday and now that I’m older I don’t have a relationship with my parents because of the hell that was. I definitely don’t hate them but it’s like the conclusion of my life as their kid. and I’m not bringing that into my life no hate just indifferent -
Pluto is conjunct the IC in my boyfriend’s chart and he describes his father as the controlling one but definitely had control & power issues with both of his parents. Definitely has very intense memories of his childhood too.
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I have Moon – conjunction – Pluto, first house, and Saturn-conjunction-IC (fourth house) and Saturn-square-AC (Scorpio), and Sun opposed to Saturn, and I have a similar case of “controlling/abusive parents”, plus “cold-hearted parents”… who usually used to force me to take care of my ungrateful siblings… Specially, my mother, which seems a second father to me (in a really bad sense). They all are always trying to manipulate me with “we gave you all our (scarce, limited) sources, so you should be grateful with us” (forgetting that I end up adding my own earnings, which seem invisible to them). 😅
But I overcame it already. 😁
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I have this and I can say for sure my mother was toxic in every sense
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It’s a hoax
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I think of “good Pluto” as being the ultimate grown up in the room. The person who can assess cold hard reality, step up to take the scary emotional responsibility no one else wants to, who understands that they have power but doesn’t let that knowledge feed their own personal ego. No one could really be that person all the time, but some people can be that person some of the time.
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I have Pluto in 4th. Abandoned in early childhood by narcissist mother
