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Discussion
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I’m pretty sure it’s a Wiccan rule, but I’ve seen just witches use it, so I figured this was an appropriate place for it. What do you all think of it? I’ve seen some people say it’s dumb, because inevitably you can’t make a single action without someone getting hurt, but by that logic, you can’t do anything. You can’t buy groceries without possibly causing someone who really wanted that item to miss out on getting it, you can’t apply for a job because someone else may really need the job.
I agree with the rule, but I don’t think you have to be strict about it, like, no harmful magic unless that person really needs it, like a child rapist. I don’t think you should hex anyone willy nilly, but sometimes it’s kind of needed.
What do you all think? I’ve been curious about this for awhile, so any answers are helpful! Thank you for reading.
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What does everyone think of the “Harm none, do what ye will.” Rule?
updated 2 years, 3 months ago
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in yoruba tradition we dont attack we protect our self. its not in good character to take revenge in our hands.
a priest once said ” if you fuck with me. i will protect myself, and if in that process i crush you it was your ball i’m just a better pitcher”
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I started a similar discussion over on r/Wicca there were some great responses you may find helpful. Out of that discussion I’m tending more towards the “do no harm but take no shit” interpretation – self defense is valid and intention is everything. In response to your specific examples, if you’re not buying the groceries or applying for a job *specifically to be spiteful and cause someone else to miss out* you’re ok.
[discussion here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wicca/comments/smsl6b/harm_none_question)
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When I was young and shy and sweet,
The Threefold Law my needs did meet.
Life moved on, and soon I found,
A more balanced route in which to ground.
Now older still, my claws came out,
To strike back at those that fuck’d about.
And “Do no harm, but take no shit,”
Became “Fuck with me and get the spit!”
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“no harmful magic unless that person really needs it, like a child rapist”.
I don’t hex/curse. It is just my way. I made this rule for myself in the early 70’s. When I met my first Wiccans, their harm none philososphy was something that attracted me to them. I was 3 year trained and more in the 90’s. The Goddess told me that there were things that can only be done in a group, and I should think about joining one for a while to learn what those things are. The 3fold and return to sender were a deep topic for discussion, and we did not all agree on them. And that is in a small group of very like minded individuals.
A rapist would get, from me, first, a spotlight spell to get the cops on their ass. Then, a justice spell to have them convicted, and receive a good, fair, and just sentence that fit the crime. Even a person that evil, I would find a way to bend the Universe to my will that did not involve direct harm, because that is my way. And for no other reason. No one makes laws or rules for my craft, or for my beliefs. Be a witch that you are glad to see in the mirror each day. That is my only real advice on this subject. BB.
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Never start shit but certainly don’t take it, sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.
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As I’ve gotten older and understand how the real world works I sometimes change how I see things and this is one of those areas. I’m not sure if I would ever practice baneful magic myself, but I can certainly understand it at times. The idea of hexing someone out of spite and irritation is still not cool with me (seems like a waste of energy and emotion), but as a protective measure/means of justice for serious harms and whatnot I can certainly understand now, especially when our legal systems so often fail us.
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Whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn’t sink mine. 🤷🏻♀️ and even then there are exceptions. I mean, pirates.
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From what I’ve observed, it seems like people who do wish harm don’t do it from a detached, neutral standpoint in hopes of simply serving karma and balancing the universe. It seems like it’s not motivated from wanting to benefit the situation, but from a place of satisfying the ego.
It reminds me of prison. The system will say the purpose of prison is to reform and make them better members of society. But the results of prisoners returning, prisoners who did one crime (sometimes small) become better criminals – not people. It’s evident to many that the true purpose of prison is punishment (and free slave labor, but that’s not about my current point).
I’ve not observed darkness being fought with darkness as truly beneficial. Even in myself, I’ve seen my reaction to doing this as being satisfied and as an outlet for my anger. It can feel righteous. But did it really make the effects of trauma and my pain go away? Did it make them as a person better? Did it make the world better? Did it make my life better? No. Personally, me enacting the same poison they feed me only solidified it’s existence in my life.
My personal experience is my own and I’m not claiming to know all the answers or suggest it’s a black and white situation. I’m only answering your question honestly.
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I don’t do baneful work unless I feel it’s necessary. It really depends on the situation. If something bad has been done to me I feel I need somewhere to put all my pain. Sometimes I channel that into baneful work, sometimes I transform it into something more positive. Sometimes I feel a debt is owed to me and I feel a person needs to learn a lesson. Sometimes I send their energy back to them, sometimes I send them what I feel they deserve. I believe the only person that can fit the punishment with the crime that has been done to me is me. Especially when I’ve taken all mundane measures and tried to go through the legal system and it hasn’t worked. I don’t believe in the Wiccan rules. But I also work on myself along the way with therapy and self love and care.
Edit to add: Sometimes you have to be the karma you wish to see in the world.
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In theory its pretty decent, but in practice it can lead to toxic positivity.
It’s just a watered down version of the thelema one, Wicca was made in collaboration with people from thelema so I think it’s definitely a good idea to look into that if you’re interested in wicca
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I believe as long as the intention, is to harm none, you’re fine. But if you do something to hurt someone, that’s when it is morally wrong. Which is why I will never hex someone. This is also coming from a wiccan. However I don’t believe that everyone should hold themselves to this rule, as everyone believes in something different. Some say that that person deserves the hex based on whatever they did or who they are, and if you can justify that for yourself then good for you. Just for me personally I want to bring in good by doing good and harming none. So it up to yourself
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You can find the history behind this [most-misinterpreted idea here.](https://gardnerians.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/there-is-no-universal-threefold-law-in-wicca/)
TLDR: It was from a fictional work from Gerald Gardner and only applies to witches doing each other a solid.#TheMoreYouKnow
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I’m not wiccan *anymore*, but that is one of the lessons I do keep with me; along with similar “golden rules” from various faiths I practice. It’s certainly not a prerequisite for witchcraft though. In Zen Buddhism (another path I combine with my craft) they say you are allowed to break the precepts (similar harm-none rules/guidelines) so long as you do so while exercising both wisdom and compassion (a difficult but not impossible thing to do while following the precepts).
>You can’t buy groceries without possibly causing someone who really wanted that item to miss out on getting it
I personally think this is quite a stretch of the definition of “harm”, unless you’re literally taking food from a starving person or similar.
>you can’t apply for a job because someone else may really need the job.
Not applying for a job you need is harming yourself, which is an entirely equivalent violation of the rule. It’s up to a hiring manager to hire the best candidate; you’re not ‘rescuing’ anyone by not applying. (imho)
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For me personally, my justification is that sometimes, YOU get to be a person’s karma
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If the universe will give people what’s coming to them, and im part of the universe… then I’m sure it’s fine
