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Discussion
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This might be a lil long.
So, for a lil background, I’m 24F & being Wiccan is my life. I was raised in a partially Pagan & Buddhist household, went to a Unitarian Universalist church (google em, they ROCK. We had athiest, witches, Jewish folk, and Buddhists in our congregation!) and just all around had a life experience FAR away from the norm of Christianity. I consider myself very lucky in a way!
My partner is an athiest, he was raised Christian but through his adult life, left that faith because of his own beliefs and issues with Christianity. But his parents are devout Christians. I’m talking his dad tried to “court” him off to some girl he never met in his younger days.
His parents are divorced & tbh I only ever see his mom. I haven’t met his dad yet & I think it’s bc my partner is trying to protect me from that.
Regardless, his mom is a nice lady but super conservative & views things backwards. My partner’s sibling just came out as trans, and their mom has already deadnamed and misgendered her at the last dinner. I didnt correct her bc tbh I forgot his sisters deadname & had no idea who his mom was talking about.
I’m friends with my partner’s ex wife who is also an athiest & she warned me that his mother will say the meanest shit to you with a bat of eyelashes and a syrupy sweet smile. His mom also didn’t seem to WANT to believe that we were dating even after living together for 8 months. She sounded so shocked when she finally put it together & saw it on facebook (my partner wont add her so she looks at hus page lol) Her first question to him, “Well, does she honor you like she should?” I’m sorry, what?????? HONOR him???? What is this, the 1800s??? I had had dinner with her so many times, kissed my partner so many times, how did she not know? Makes me feel like she couldnt even consider that possiblity bc I’m not good enough for her son /eyeroll
So that brings me to my question. I have next to NO good experience with talking/interacting with people that devote Christian. They usually make me highly uncomfortable & I usually end up getting snippy bc people like that have such strange and irritating views. I dont want to be a people pleaser, as thats something I struggle with, but I also don’t want to be as aggressive as I normally am. Do you guys have any tips on how to engage politely with them while still standing my ground? I feel like it’s ingrained in me to hate Christianity, but that doesn’t mean they’re not people with feelings. I wont let her disrespect the LGBT or be racist, but how do I go about it in a way that I don’t chop her head off with my words? I feel like my first instinct is to be MEAN.
Thanks in advance & blessed be 🖤
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Unfamiliar territory with Christians Help?
updated 1 year, 8 months ago
2 Members
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I came across an idea I like, and when a Christian starts being racist or homophobic, tell them you will pray for them to God to put more love and empathy in their hearts.
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Honestly? In a way it almost doesn’t matter that she is Christian. Rudeness and bigotry should not be tolerated. I think you are feeling like her judgement is coming from her religion so you should respect it. Which is nice of you. But judgement and hate is not actually at the central teachings of Christianity. So just treat any bigotry or rudeness as you would from a secular person. Politely and firmly establish your boundary (easier said than done) for the specific chrtian stuff: When she spouts off a weird point of view tip your head to the side and ask her what it means. When she brings up some “it’s in the bible” bullshit nod your head sagely and say ‘oh yes I’ve heard some people interpret it that way’ then smile and change the subject.
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i can imagine the anger and hatred would be even more intense when you are raised in it & come out on the other side. i WANT to be kind and understanding, but their mindset is SO FKN INFURIATING. 😭
thank you!! you are SO right & im so grateful too. he is absolutely a gem of a human- for example his mom invited us to dinner tonight & i was getting anxious as hell about it (it would be the first dinner since finding out were together lol) bc I’m afraid her demeanor towards me will change or im gonna get the third degree since she knows now im “in the family” lol.
his response? “It is 100% up to you if you come or not, my love. No pressure either way, I want you to be comfortable. If you don’t, I’ll make sure to stop and bring you dinner home.”
😭😭😭 my first healthy relationship. its incredible lmao
meant to respond to u/erikalg_vo
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damn, i don’t know. this is honestly something I’ve struggled with for most of my life too. I was baptised catholic, attended southern baptist or episcopalian or private catholic schools. I was *raised* with some semblance of religion around me. As i’ve become my own person, though, I’ve found it more and more difficult to be as accepting and open minded about the devoutly religious as I wish they were about me. It sounds like you’re in a rough spot, but it also sounds like you have a good support system and a partner who knows what kind of BS his mother is likely to roll out. I’m glad this isn’t something that you’ll have to navigate on your own. 💜
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I don’t know if this will be a help to you, but as your partner’s mother well knows, words can have two meanings.
I developed the habit of dealing with my father’s religious extremism of responding with ambiguous statements, or at least statements that could be *interpreted* as positive but if you were paying attention, they said something else.
Example:
‘isn’t this ‘$thing that happened’ a real miracle?’‘Oh it sounds fantastic.’ As in *fanciful* not *amazing* as it is most commonly used today.
‘What do you think of ‘$politician?’
‘I think they need all the help they can get.’ i.e. mental health intervention and plenty of it. The more voltage used, the better.
‘Honestly, we should just ‘$do-horrible-thing-to-vulnerable-population’
‘If we had decent education in the first place this wouldn’t even be an issue.’ Because people would have to actively work to be as backward and hateful as you, you bloodthirsty cabbage.
Don’t be surprised if she keeps throwing up more trial balloons. Whatever you do, don’t elaborate or explain your viewpoint. It is exactly like the game where you can’t say yes, no, or umm. People like this enjoy conflict to a degree, but they want you to *start* it by disagreeing with them. Because, apparently, you not sharing all of their views, or at the very least going with the toxic flow they live in, is a personal attack. If she wants to start a fight, let her make the first move. You are unlikely to change her mind and even less likely by arguing with her, so don’t play. Feel free to draw your own lines in the sand, this is your life after all, I’m just a random stranger from the internet.
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>I didnt correct her bc tbh I forgot his sisters deadname & had no idea who his mom was talking about.
I just want to say I love this 😊
My partner’s sibling doesn’t remember my necronym anymore either, and it feels good, because that’s the ideal scenario.
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UU church sex Ed is the best. Covid knocked my kid out of class early, but we plan to find a way to return to it.
My favorite phrase, which may or may not be helpful to you is “oh I’m not taking comments on that right now.”
” your hand tattoos are going to limit your…”
“Oh, I’m not taking comments on that right now”“ A good woman will always make sure her husband has …”
“Oh, I’m not taking comments on that right now.”“Dressing modestly shows respect for the husbands of other…”
“Oh, I’m not taking comments on that right now.” -
I was raised Southern Baptist, so this shit extra pisses me off because I know the Bible and I know it doesn’t support the hate these bigots are spewing. Jesus showed love to everyone except the hypocrites – he had only anger for them. You don’t have to be nice. Fuck politeness. Peoples’ lives are at stake so we are long past that.
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My parents tried raising me to be Christian, and holy shit did that backfire. The more they tried and the more christian people i met, the more I became an atheist, and eventually Wiccan.
Christianity is the source of everything wrong in the world
Talking to a Christian is like talking to someone sky high on drugs (and sometimes just as dangerous). You gotta play along in a way that takes them down a notch, or just ignore them and laugh it off.
I’ll greet them with a “hail Satan” or be nice to them then tell me the devil made me do it. Unless they’re the kind of person who will thank Jesus instead of me after I go out of my way to help them, in which case I’ll just tell them to go fuck themselves.
I refuse to consider them “people with feelings”. Because they’re not. They’re brainwashed drones who were taught an extremely skewed way of feeling that only has room for their own kind and their god. They’re just like men – some individual members of their kind may be good, but in general they’re a hateful bunch of morons who aren’t worth even having a conversation with.
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If you do anything cute or clever or even graciously deflective — like, if you respond any way at ALL other than with total affirmation and agreement — you aren’t going to have to worry about this relationship. She’ll cut you off, whether with a polite fadeout (rare) or a full-on campaign to get her son away from you. It’s really not gonna matter whether you try to interact respectfully or eyeroll’fully, if you don’t constantly agree and affirm, she’s gonna know you’re not in the cult and try to make you sorry.
In which case, you’re best off being gracious for the limited time that you’ll be spending with her*, but if you’re up for some advice? As soon as she turns nasty, go from “gracious in front of others” to “gray rock in the extreme.” Like pretend you don’t remember her name or who she is. Just send back a message with your LACK of message that she’s nothing to you.
This is how to shorten the entire ordeal from meetup to dropped, with the least drama. Give her nothing to work with, once that first hit comes. “I am not here for this” is the mantra.
*Be gracious but honest at the one dinner or whatever for two reasons: Clear conscience on your part, and having left a trace of a different kind of person in the lives of whoever she’s trying to control. They’ll remember who you were and that you not only didn’t play her games, you seemed to be totally unaware that the games exist or that there ARE rules. And this part is the dethroning of bigoted fundamentalist Xianity — anytime the rest of us are honest about never having heard of it and having no regard for it. Witnessing this disregard and disrespect is the first seed of doubt for young people who will eventually leave the cult.
Finally, if it sounds like I don’t think all religions and religious people should be treated with respect: That’s right. I don’t. Any peaceful ground gained with bigots will not lead to real peace later. It only leads to their simmering anger and saving up ammunition for another showdown in the future. They can’t comprehend mutual respect and you can’t teach it to them through your own decent behavior.
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This is so tough. If you do decide to go to dinner and she starts making jabs at you, just shut her down, but do so respectfully. But definitely don’t let her walk all over you, and I hope your partner doesn’t allow it either. Nip it in the bud early because let’s say you stay together for many years, or get married if that’s in your life plan, she’ll continue to think she can talk to you however she wants. Personally I wouldn’t shy away from dinner. Show up and be yourself and be proud of who you are ❤️
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My one experience with her that sticks out was she commented on my hand tattoos. My left hand is covered in tats, and not all of them are very good lol. Basically tried to gently lecture me about how “no good jobs were going to hire me”and “i need to worry about what my future partners would think blahblahblah”. I said, “Oh, I plan on getting more. And some face tattoos!” Super cheerfully. Poor lady opened her mouth with the suprized pikachu & started to say something, but before I couldn’t hide my laughter and she could say something, my partner was like, “WANNA STEP OUTSIDE FOR A SMOKE” really fast 😭😂
In that situation I think I handled it okay. But it genuinely bothered me. That was like my first or second time meeting her. And ever since then I cant let my guard down
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So, a successful strategy really depends on the nature of your specific adversary; bigots and sanctimonious creeps come in all flavors, and not all Christians are going to have the same goals/strategies/apologetics. Sometimes you need to face the beast head-on and articulate a clear boundary as others have wisely suggested. However, as an American in the midwest, sometimes the head-on approach is too incendiary to be practical in a family situation. I’ve had a lot of luck with more of an “invisible fence” approach: just a total refusal to engage in the kind of conversation you don’t want to have.
“Do you honor him and respect his spiritual headship in your heart?”
“Oh! We had the most wonderful round of disc golf last Saturday, let me tell you all about it!”“Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour?”
“I would just LOVE to have your ham salad recipe, it’s *divine.*”“Will you come to church with me this Sunday?”
“My boss just changed all of our computer systems at work with NO NOTICE. It was CHAOS. Said it ‘couldn’t possibly matter that much.’ Can you imagine???”It works the same way an invisible fence works for a dog — they can’t see it, but if they bump into enough they figure it out. Employed with the right opponent, at some point they just drop it once it’s clear they 1.) Can’t get anywhere, 2.) Can’t get you upset about it, and 3.) Can’t play the victim by making you the bad guy for setting a boundary. No need to set the ship on fire if you can take the wind out if their sails by changing direction real quick lol.
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There are a LOT of good articles out there on setting boundaries with parents as an adult. [This one](https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/set-boundaries-with-parents#be-specific) is one of my favorites.
Pro tip: “You can’t say stuff like ___ to me” is not a boundary. It’s a wish. Ultimately if you are in her presence, she can SAY whatever she wants. “If you say ___ to me, I will ___” is a boundary. A boundary cannot control other people’s behavior, but it can let them know what behavior you will not accept and it can establish a consequence for that behavior. An easy example: if my family members fight around me, I cut my visit short and don’t visit again for a while. They now avoid fighting during my visits.
You’ll have to adapt your approach a bit since this is not your parent, but your partner’s. Your partner’s mom probably doesn’t care about your reactions to her behavior, but if you and your partner establish these boundaries together, she will hopefully learn to respect them to stay in your partner’s good graces.
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Hmm, I don’t have any specific advice toward dealing with her. I have some distant relatives who are nutball Evangelicals, but going NC with them was easy because we barely saw each other anyway. But I would suggest that whatever you and your partner decide, you should present yourselves as a united front.
It sounds a bit like she hasn’t given up on the idea of her son settling down with a nice Christian girl. If that’s the case, she may think that her son is “still on her side” so to speak, and that her task is simply getting rid of the bad influence girlfriend. Things will be much easier for you if you make it obvious that the two of you are of one mind when it comes to certain topics.
Also, does your partner know about the nasty things she said to his ex-wife? If he was just happily oblivious while the woman was suffering the brunt of MIL’s nastiness, that needs to be brought to light ASAP unless you want the same done to you. If he doesn’t want to believe it or just winds up trying to justify his mom’s behavior, there’s your red flags.
