Why are men so entitled to emotional labour from women?

[Trent]

OK, this is a broad generalisation. Since I’ve moved from Canada to The Netherlands, Im utterly shocked that literally 99% of the men I’ve met, fully expected me to put in the emotional labour (carrying the conversation, being polite, explaining, answering, asking questions about them.. you know the shit) without them even noticing, acknowledging and let alone appreciating or, dear Jesus, even reciprocating any of it back to me. They’d just treat me like I dont exist, matter or that they are completely superior.

I just wanna say, Im disgusted and exhausted.

Is it the pandemic? Is it the old patriarchy systems running deep in Europe? Is it lack of general emotional intelligence? Like wtf is this?

edit: I dont think this is just a Dutch issue. Just because it’s “cultural thing” it doesn’t mean it’s not toxic. But I also agree, I should care less what others think.

edit II: ok, turned out I need an advice on how not to be a people-pleaser. thanks for keeping me in check

Discussion

[Lottapaloosa]

Im from the Netherlands! Sadly Dutch guys can be real jerks. But it does depend on the location/setting. For instance i went to uni in Maastricht, where the student population is like girl/boy 3:1. So all the guys knew they could just treat you like shit because there would be 10 more girls eagerly waiting to take your place… supposedly its the other way around in the cities with mostly male students (like Delft or Wageningen). And i dont know where you live but people from Amsterdam for instance are known for being a bit more into superficial things. And people in close knit communities (like the far south or the bible belt) are not usually great with outsiders.
Hope this isnt making you regret coming here! The good news is you can totally call them out on their behavior because of the famous Dutch ‘bluntness’. For instance you could say ‘you know, talking to you sometimes feels like a one-way-street, maybe you want to explain it this time/look it up for yourself’. Or just ‘wow, thats actually rather impolite/quite rude’. But it sucks you apparently have to teach them manners…

[eogreen]

When I lived in Seattle, I worked with a few Canadian men from British Columbia. 1000% those men were far more able, willing, and skilled at carrying emotional labour than my American male colleagues.

Maybe Canada knows how to raise its people to be better?

[Telomera]

Just do what I do: don’t talk to most men. If they’re not going to take interest in me or talk much I’m cold. No reason to do shit for them.

[inocular]

I live in Latin America and most men are like this, except they’ll be overly friendly sometimes in a weird way, but then they’ll be emotionally unavailable. The thing is I don’t trust most men and I’m not willing to befriend anyone. I’ve became really picky about whom I surround myself with, and I’ve worked a lot on setting boundaries and communicating my needs. You don’t need to hang out with people who make you feel like that. There’s men who’ll reciprocate, sometimes in their own way which might be different from yours. Be honest about your needs & expectations. It pays off!

P.S. It’s completely normal to feel the way you’re feeling rn. Especially when you’re new to a different country and a different culture. Hope you can make the most out of this experience.

[Onegreenmartian]

I would indulge them in uncomfortable silence. I am not an entertainer.

[Grammophon]

This sounds a bit like an US colleague of mine who is very much into small talk. But none of us is. (I am living in Germany.) It is really uncomfortable for me when she asks personal questions, asks how my weekend was or tries to make conversation that isn’t work related.

From my perspective it felt like she didn’t respect my boundaries. I later found out that she felt really uncomfortable here, too. Because she got the impression we would ostracize her and she thought I was arrogant. It took about a year and a half until it worked out between us and she realised that there is very rarely “awkward silence” here. In most of the cases people just don’t talk and don’t expect you to make conversation, either. Perhaps you pressure yourself too much?

Apart from that if someone isn’t reciprocating my efforts at all, I’d just save my energy. Perhaps you can find more talkative people at other places? Hobby or something.

[jir9493]

I live in Southern US and work at a health care facility where patients just LOVE to tell me their life stories, when all I want to do is schedule their x-ray.

[aagjevraagje]

I mean not to downplay your experience but I’m Dutch and I think the culture just also is like kind of less emotionally available altogether.

I sometimes find foreign peeps exhausting because they’ll dump like their life story on you over a lunch break.

[Curae]

I’m from the Netherlands. Some men are just like that, but sounds like you’ve just been unlucky. I don’t know if you speak Dutch, but if you don’t, it could also be that they’re shy about their English. Plenty of people underestimate their own language skills.

[valsavana]

Do your conversations with women there go the same? I’m wondering if it’s a gender thing or a cultural thing where most people in that country just aren’t as open & talkative. I have heard a lot about Americans being viewed as overly exuberant & extroverted by a lot of people in other countries but I don’t know if Canadians have a similar vibe.

[SrLlemington]

My bf wants to move to the Netherlands exactly because the small talk culture is like this, LOL

[Fedrik_Saffir]

I think it’s more of a cultural thing. Adapting to different cultures is harder than what it looks especially if those cultures aren’t compatible with your personality and don’t have a lot in common with your culture of origin and it may even be a regional thing. European countries even the ones as small as the Netherlands can have a lot of regional variation.

[fermentedfossil]

It is possible they’re just assholes, or genuinely aren’t interested in you.

Glennon Doyle’s book Untamed is a really good read and at one point she talks about how she realized she was coddling her son and didn’t expect him to put in the effort she expected her daughters to put in – which is how boys grow into men who expect their wives to do all the housework/parenting/etc.

[PoseidonIsDaddy]

Reciprocity should not be assumed for any action; what you give, you must give freely. It’s ultimately your choice to give them your energy, and if they need it, they will eventually notice when you withhold it.

[joolsienoone]

I’ve been settling into a newer habit of completely not picking up all of the slack in conversation with dudes and instead just sitting comfortably with the silence and watching them grow increasingly uncomfortable and lemme tell ya I’m getting more powerful each day. It’s delicious. Highly recommend.