Why are men so entitled to emotional labour from women?

[Trent]

OK, this is a broad generalisation. Since I’ve moved from Canada to The Netherlands, Im utterly shocked that literally 99% of the men I’ve met, fully expected me to put in the emotional labour (carrying the conversation, being polite, explaining, answering, asking questions about them.. you know the shit) without them even noticing, acknowledging and let alone appreciating or, dear Jesus, even reciprocating any of it back to me. They’d just treat me like I dont exist, matter or that they are completely superior.

I just wanna say, Im disgusted and exhausted.

Is it the pandemic? Is it the old patriarchy systems running deep in Europe? Is it lack of general emotional intelligence? Like wtf is this?

edit: I dont think this is just a Dutch issue. Just because it’s “cultural thing” it doesn’t mean it’s not toxic. But I also agree, I should care less what others think.

edit II: ok, turned out I need an advice on how not to be a people-pleaser. thanks for keeping me in check

Discussion

[buildabeast]

It’s actually interesting because I’m a man in a masters program that is 85% women (teaching) and I feel the exact same way. I don’t know what that means, but it feels meaningful to me.

[ajjs]

I live in the Netherlands too, and in general… people you don’t know are not going to have a conversation with you. That’s not being mean, its just the way it is. How long have you lived here?

In general, if you become friends with people, I would say the gender balance is pretty good. Yes, there are some misognistic men here, but…nto that many? At least in the Randstadt.

[noodlegod47]

I’m American and my bf asks why I don’t ask more about him, why don’t I care enough, why does he carry the conversation — as if I don’t care, don’t want to hold a conversation, or don’t ask stuff about him literally all the time. Seems like none of my love or efforts are noticed or acknowledged. He is usually caring, but I totally get what you’re feeling.

Women who are damaged are not emotional punching bags for immature men.

[BleuDePrusse]

I read your post after your edits, and you showed great self awareness, which in turn helped me too. I love that sub, sisterly hug!!

[crasshumor]

I believe it’s a cultural thing because where I’ve grown up, guys have to put more effort to impress the girl. Not that girls dont do anything, they do too if they are interested but guys are almost always expected to initiate it.

[greenathlete3]

Check out Ted Lasso on Apple TV if you need a laugh about it. Season two has a whole bit about the Dutch football player that isn’t being rude, he’s just Dutch!

[SuccubusLena]

I’m Dutch and I couldn’t tell you exactly what it is, but I’m not attracted to Dutch men. I’ve always dated expats or had long distance relationships (with a few exceptions).

[RoboticAnomaly]

I’m an American guy who has lived in the Netherlands for about three years. It’s really interesting reading the replies here, because they more or less sum up my experiences too. I also work in a tech field, so perhaps that biases things, but I wanted to add that perhaps it is generational. Assuming you’re in your 20s or 30s, I think a number of Dutch men around this age tend to have this sort of suave attitude that typically includes a bit of misogyny. I’ve heard more than one comment from a Dutch man, even at work, that surprised me. (The misogyny isn’t suprising, but the “blunt” aspect of it is.)

That being said, there are very lovely people here! My wife and I have met many men and women that are friendly, talkative, and even accomadating of our still-in-progress Dutch. It really depends on the person. If it were me, I’d do my best to not spend much energy on the exhausting ones and just try to move on to interacting with others. It’s more of a mixed bag than we expats sometimes think.

[SuggestiveMaterial]

The men in the states are similar.

I think, personally, that it’s because they had very over achieving moms and underachieving dads so they have no clue how to actually conversate.

[TqtrC17]

maybe because anywhere else where men put their emotions is frowned upon by considering them weak by doing so, not trying to justify it, just reasoning as to why it could happen

[coconut_teacakes]

It’s Scandinavia honey. I’m Scandinavian and us folks are coooooold. We’re a Northern people, the freezing temperatures and the dark make us cranky lol. But in all seriousness, all Scandinavian countries have that type of attitude. The only one that’s “warmer” or “more welcoming” is Sweden.

[VLenin2291]

Can’t say I’ve ever seen or heard such a thing and I really, really hope I’m not guilty of doing it as well, but maybe I did without noticing. AFAIK, gender equality is pretty good where I live. Nevertheless, it pains me to hear that the patriarchy’s tendrils have crept into mere casual conversation

[tallcat-to-the-west]

This is quite common yes (as a Dutch girl I can say this definitely happened less in the UK, maybe it’s general bad manners here).

My strategy whenever I notice someone isn’t reciprocating the interest and effort, only talking about themselves, I just assess how interesting they are: if they have experience/know something I don’t, I learn from them as much as possible comfortable in the knowledge I won’t have to reveal anything about myself. I don’t hold them in high regard after this interaction, or have sympathy for them, which brings me satisfaction because of their general rude attitude.

If they have nothing interesting to say, I quickly move on.

[BrasWolf27]

Yeah, dutch bisexual guy here, it’s really a big thing. Most guys are not taught emotional stuff and hardly develop any emotional maturity. They honestly believe they are being charming and attractive around women and descent even further un emotional intelligence when amongst each other (the locker room talk is the worst). There is no changing them without them wanting to change or even realizing there’s a problem.

Ask yourself from what you have to gain by talk to these people. I’d advise to avoid dealing with guys like that all together, you don’t owe them anything.

(Side note: the dutch are generally also a little more rude than most other cultures regardless of other context.)

[FridaAshtar]

I think this is a bit of a misinterpretation 😉 people in Europe are pretty private and secretive compared do Canada or the US, we don’t talk to strangers easily, its also seen as disrespectful to ask or tell strangers personal things ,we don’t like small talk or superficial conversations ,if strangers talk to us to much or coming to close we often just turn around and leave 😀
building any kind of relationships takes more time , people want to know each other better before opening up . people also don’t like it to be forced into a conversation or a relationship, if someone does not want to speak we just simply respect it and never take it personal !